I have a 2001 M3 with 4000 trouble-free miles. I have had the same rattle you describe from new, but having driven an earlier 2001 with the same drive train characteristics, I have learned to live with it. As a test of finesse, I have tried to find a combination of throttle and clutch to lessen or eliminate the rattle and can do it. It seems disconcerting to have this "looseness" at the clutch and transmission, but it has done nothing to lessen the remarkable performance of this great car. I wonder if the normal 3 series has it? I'm meeting a friend tomorrow with a 325 5 speed, and I'll ask him.

I imagine you're experiencing chatter caused by a lightweight clutch assembly. Part of the flywheel's job is to dampen harmonic vibrations from the crank, but as a tradeoff the added reciprocating mass slows engine accelleration making it less willing to rev and absorbs some power.

I just picked up a Dinan supercharged 95 which has a lightweight clutch package installed. Compared to a stock 98 I've driven there is significant chatter. I don't find it objectionable, in fact I think it adds character as it is typical of a rev-happy race engine.

I speculate BMW decided this quality outweighed the necessity to have a perfectly smooth engine all the way down to idle. If you notice the problem above 2k then it likely is something else. - Beau

Thanks to Beau for the explanation. This is why I so enjoy this website. About 25 years ago I owned and raced a formula junior and the clutch behaved much like the M3; yes, it seems typical of race cars.

Brand new 2002 M3, 740 miles. After engaging clutch in first or second gear, on redepressing the clutch there is a rattle from the drive train. Several low frequency beats in quick succession. Someone described this to me as a "gear slap" or a "drive train related rattle". I hear it in second and fist gear at low speed . This usually only occurs with depression of the clutch peddle but sometimes also to a lesser degree when engaging the gear shift from first to second.

My initial discussion with the dealer technician said it was normal. When I returned , thinking it was worse, the dealer test drove and agreed this was not normal. He said that another new owner came in with the same complaint and that this is inherent in the M3. A BMW rep is coming out to assess. They are awaiting instructions on what to do. Anybody else out there with this problem.

I've own one of this wonderful machine but like all of you guys, I've started the experience the noise in the clutch and a rattle in the drivetrain from 900km onwards. According to the BMW User manual, the clutch takes about 500km to bed in. I've spoken to my dealer and the technical direct in Perth, Western Australia, and he's now quite sure about it. We're waiting for someone to come from BMW Australia (Melbourne) to have a drive and listen to it. They think it could be the so called self-adjusting clutch or the multi-plate in it to compensate for the new differential that's in the E46 M3. But what ever it is, at lower speed gear change 1 to 2, it is really annoying...!!!

i have the same exact problem but i never seem have the time to take my car to the dealer to check it out. i know, i'm sorry, i should take it in asap. let you guys know after i take it in.

My 2002 M3 with 1,200 miles has the same rattle. I consulted with two different BMW techs and they said that BMW says it is "normal". One of the techs gave me a copy of a service bulletin (June 2001) which calls the problem "Radial Play in Right Side Rear Axle Output Flange". It states that the right side rear axle output flange appears to have "excessive" play when compared to the left side. They say that it is a normal design characteristic of the new M differential lock style rear axle and should not be replaced. What they haven't explianed is why this rattle doesn't appear in all M3s. I am waiting to hear from them.

I want to thank all of you for the thoughtful responses. You have confirmed that this rattle is not unique to my M3. I suspect there are more than just the 6 of us (and the two in a subsequent posting).

If I can summarize the explanations thus far the rattle is 1. normal and should be ignored; 2. the result of a light weight clutch assembly inherent to a high performance vehicle; 3. a clutch break-in phenomena that will presumably resolve; and 4. play in the rear axle output flange.

I also note that the technical staff at the dealerships do not know what this is nor do they know what if anything should be done.

I remain skeptical that this clutch rattle is normal. I have driven other performance vehicles, German cars and other BMWs specifically looking for this rattle. I find it hard to believe that a $50,000+ automobile should be this sloppy. It seems more plausible that this is a glitch got by the engineers in the rush to finaly release the car after numerous delays.

I suggest that others who have noticed this problem keep sending in their observations to see how widespread this problem is. Those of us who find this problem annoying can then present these responses to each of our respective BMW dealers. If the response is large, it will get the attention of BMW if not some of the trade magazines. If they insist that this is normal then at least there will be a paper trail ( ? an e-trail) that might be useful should there be clutch or drive train problems that develop after the warranty expires.

G'day folks,

BMW Australia has sent a memo out to all its dealers about this problem and is in the process of finding a solution. The dealers have been told not to replace anything at the moment and once a solution is found it would be done under warranty.

So there we go, BMW knows about the problem and hopefully we'll soon have a remedy to it.

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IK, Perth, Western Australia
June build M3 in Titanium Silver

Mine with about 200 miles has the same problem. Is there anything we can do together to get BMW's attention on this?
Also, I would like to hear from the owners who don't have ratteling problem. Yes, This is not acceptable for over $50000 car!!

jonam

The memo that ihithisham (see above) is referring to, is referenced S1 33 01 01 Rear Axle, June 2001, Service Engineering, Advance Information. The subject is "radial play in the right side rear axle out flange".

The memo describes the noise as "a drivetrain rattle or knocking ..during load change, i.e. 1st to 2nd gear shift at low engine speed when the clutch pedal is pressed" They make reference to the right rear axle output flange with excessive play when compared to the left side but then go onto say that replacing it will not fix the problem. Nor will replacement of the transmission, rear axle, drive shaft fix it either!

It is unclear whether they really know why this is happening at this point because they note that this problem is "currently being investigated to POSSIBLY [my caps] optimize drivetrain components for noise reduction.."

Several things to note from the memo. 1. its not clear that they really know the cause. 2. they are not saying they are going to fix it , they merely indicate that they are investigating to possibly fix it and 3. they have known about this since June , 2001 when the first deliveries were being made and now 6 months later no word on resolution of the problem.

My bet is that they are waiting to see how many people complain and how widespread the problem is.

The drivetrain noise is normal; every E46 M3 has it. Obviously it bothers some people more than others. It is not unusual for a high performance car to make such noises, regardless of the cost. Ferrari and Porsche drivetrains have made similar noises for years.

If there truly is a problem, BMW will have no choice but to recall the cars. They are good about this; when the V8 debuted in 1993/1994, most engines were replaced when they realized there was a problem.

If there is no problem (and I expect there isn't), and it is just people expecting Lexus smoothness from a high-strung car putting out over 100hp per liter, the US market will not get the good stuff next time around. I wish everybody would realize this before complaining to the manufacturer.

Well done, Spook. I have a 2001 M3cab and, in my 38 years of driving have had 2 Ferraris, a Lotus, many Porsches and have road raced motorcycles and formula fords. The price for non-turbo 100 hp per liter is partially a lighter clutch and flywheel. Racing motorcycles make a horrible clatter from the clutch just idiling. But they accelerate to 100 mph in less than 10 seconds. My M3 is the best balanced 4 wheel machine I've ever owned. It will comfortably sit in traffic, accelerate with 355 Ferraris and handle magnificently. If we keep complaining, we WILL get Lexus-like smoothness, and blandness also. BMW obviously sees the USA as a very significant part of their sales plans and the M cars are the flagships. Let's accept the wonderful compromises that make the M3 so well balanced and exciting at the same time.

Amen.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spook:
...The drivetrain noise is normal; every E46 M3 has it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you delineate your meaning of "normal"? Because all law students spent their entire first year in the Law school classes defining what is normal. And here is a quote if implies at all;
"If there is no solution to a problem, then it is not a problem. But something you have to learn to live with it."

Is it normal? Magic Johnson "learns" to live with the HIV and every patient should "learn" to live the same way and stop searching for a cure? Is it normal? Should BMW make every E46-M3 sounds the same so everyone stops complaining?

To me, the sun rises from the East and sets at the West, IS normal! Or we're just talking about a damn $60,000 car? http://m3forum.com/ubb/wink.gif

I'd like to know if there are any E46 M3 owners who have NOT experienced any difficulties with shifting or noises from the drivetrain, please.

Thanks,
Grant

Yes. I have 5000 miles on my July DOMfr M3 and there is nothing unusual emanating anywhere in the drivetrain. I've spoken to two other local 2001 M3 owners, same response. The light flywheel/clutch requires more finesse than most road cars, but nothing unusual.

Thanks for the great news!
-Grant

2001 //M3 LSB I also have the driveline noise an have contacted BMW of North America ,several times to no avail. It is most annoying at times.Mine also is a little sticky shifting from first to second. I am going in for them to listen for the noise and will post my results.Otherwise it is a work of art! Cuda

There seems to be a consensus emerging that the clutch-rattle is "normal" and inherent to all m3’s, not to mention other high performance vehicles. We should all pipe down and live with it .

Others have written that there are at least 3 M3’s out there that do not experience this noise. This presumably indicates that this clutch rattle may not be universal - as some have suggested.

I do not think that there is any disagreement about the fact that the dealers have no idea about the origin of this rattle. Moreover, BMW, based on its own internal document, affirms that this noise exists, that THEY also do not know the cause. They have been “investigating” the problem since June, 2001 without an explanation, a solution or a progress report.

As someone who knows little about the subtleties of transmissions, I will admit that the lightweight-clutch-assembly assertion sure sounds plausible to me. But if true why hasn’t this explanation been put forth by BMW and why doesn’t everyone hear this noise ?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grant:
I'd like to know if there are any E46 M3 owners who have NOT experienced any difficulties with shifting or noises from the drivetrain, please.

Thanks,
Grant<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am with Grant. Please let us know if there's anyone out there w/o clutch problem.

Add me to the list of E46, M3 owners experiencing this annoying phenomenon. It began at about 500 miles.

My car is an '02. I plan to bring it up with the dealer when I take it in for my 1200 mile service. I'll post their response.

------------------
Mark Cooper
'02 M3
'96 Supra TT

I heard it immeadiatly upon deleivery.

My car now has 5300 miles on it since Late August. The car is fantastic.

Enjoy

http://m3forum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I placed my order on a M3 today, which will be starting to build in the middle of January. By thw way, it was at the Santa Monica BMW.

I talked to the Service adviser and he told me that he had replaced 2 rear differentials since. He was an a--hole, by the way!

Well... that's it. I am getting my car in March. My fingers crossed, hope mine will be trouble free!

hi guys, i should be picking up my m3 next saturday, right before christmas http://m3forum.com/ubb/smile.gif. i heard alot about this clutch rattle or clunking, but i want to know if this mainly happens as soon as you drive out the the bmw lot or it starts after a certain number of miles. many say this noise is normal but why would it start later and not as soon as you get it.

thanks

After 3 weeks and 800 miles, have listened to this noise and read all the posts with interest. I'm with W Hills on this. Compared to the idiosyncracies of some pretty high-performance machines I have driven (and wished I owned) this issue is WAY down the list of what's important. Believe it's fair to say that, if I couldn't HEAR the "clunk", I wouldn't know it existed. There is no effect on prerformance. And it IS possible to modulate left and right foot to eliminate it if it's that bothersome.

When it comes to using lightweight components (not that 3400 lbs. is exactly light!), all kinds of noises and other things pop up. Colin Chapman's cars (the "father" of lightweight) are notorious for it. During their heyday, they also won more F-1 races than any other marque, including Ferrari. You should hear/experience the rotoflex windup in the Series 2 and 3 Elans. That would put some out of their minds.

If our diffs or xmissions are going to fail, we'll be covered, but that's a doubtful scenario. In the mean time, the clunking noise scares my wife into not driving this beast, and that's a good thing...

My "clutch rattle-gear slap" is clearly much worse at 1800 miles than it was at 700 mi when I first noted the problem. The noise is louder, there are more beats to each rattle and now I hear the noise when I move the gear shift from first to second or in reverse when the clutch is fully disengaged. I ran into a new owner on his 200th mile and heard the same noise although nowhere near as loud or obvious. He was not even aware of the noise until I pointed it out. BMW dealer still has no clue.

I have been hearing the same noises from 1st to 2nd and into reverse as well since 500 miles. I have taken it to two different dealerships. They all know about it and are doing nothing. At this point I does not matter to me anymore. If it tears up, then they have to fix it. The question would be then at what point is it considered replaceable.

I found this TSB #330200 on the M5 like the M3. It describes a whine noise in the rear differential. I reported this to the dealership before I even knew a TSB existed. Mine has it so we can be asured that most of them have it but again I am getting past the point of nothing can be done until it is addressed by BMW. Until I get a recall I am not going to worry about it because it takes the fun away. Sometimes I can't help noticing it but I have done everything I can do.

I am just going to enjoy the car. I know down the road that the next generation will be an improvement.

The dealerships and I am sure BMW knows about this and other forums. They are probably reading and taking note. I guess there is a balance between performance and perfection. I would rather have performance.

This is an awesome car and will probably be the only one I will ever have so I am loving it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mw360:
FYI='01 m3 with 2000 mi del sept '01 no rattle
'99 360 modena=no rattle
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps, the rattle is the thumbing noise when you depress the clutch paddle without stabilizing (or mis-match) the rpm. Or, that the noise is common on both cars that you find it natural. I think that the noise is real and it is on all E46 M3’s that are running on the road today.

Is the Modena’s tranny between the driver and the engine? I doubt so.


[This message has been edited by Paparazzi (edited 12-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Paparazzi (edited 12-28-2001).]

FYI='01 m3 with 2000 mi del sept '01 no rattle
'99 360 modena=no rattle

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For your information,
http://forums.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46m3/forum.php?postid=244042&page=2

this is from another bimmer forum

(Sorry, LONG)2001 is my 3rd M3, I am ex Crown BMW, ex Korman mechanic. E36 and E46 M3's have a multi piece flywheel to prevent gear rattle at idle. This allows a damping effect between the flywheel and driven faceplate. The driven faceplate is sprung in both the drive and overrun directions relative to the flywheel body that is attached to the crankshaft. This sprung flywheel also will allow driveline lash and whip when clutched roughly or improperly. The lash or whip is what causes the clunk we all hear on gearchanges. Driven carefully, the driveline is silent, excepting a bit of gear whine in 6th, which is specially hardened for wear resistance. Ever hear a Group A M3 idle? A racing multi-plate clutch clatters like a can full of rocks. Our E46's for the first time are world spec cars. What we expect in a 300+ HP car here in the US is different than what the EU people expect. Euro spec cars have always been a bit rough, cammy, and coarse in comparison to the US ones. I think BMW felt for the first time that our market was mature enough to accept the drawbacks, slight though they may be to get the full power of the EU cars. Looks like they might have been wrong. Sorry to be so blunt, but my 01 M3, disregarding a sticky gas pedal assy., has been perfect. Now at 3100 miles. Boy, I feel better now! I just needed to rant a bit.

i dont think so. The Europe market is harder then the US market. We have much more car types then in the US. Smaller cars(like the VW Polo,LUPO or the Mercedes A-class) never come to US. Another thing is that every Car maker have eco versions of their engines and modern common rail diesels. I think Euro ppl expect more from a car than US ppl. in germany "the car is the germans most liked child" they love cars and they can trust them more than a girl. and when there is a little gear rattling they would go directly to the dealer and its evidently that he must repair it. There are a great many differences between US and Euro BMWs.

US models have the infamous larger bumpers required by law. These ruined the looks of many 70's and 80's models and added a heafty weight penalty. More modern vehicles tend to use the same bumpers the world over due to refinements in bumper technology.

Many models in the US have much bigger airbags than euro models. This is because almost everyone in europe is intelligent enought to wear a seatbelt and airbags are regarded only as a Secondary Restraint System (that's why SRS is printed on your airbag).

In the US people seem to demand the right to be thrown though the windscreen in the event of a crash. As a result those nasty BMW engineers have made larger airbags to try and prevent this. These airbags need a larger explosive charge to deploy them and they impact the passenger at a higher velocity leading to a greater chance of injury.
Equally many of the very large or highly tuned engines have never passed US emissions regulations or would have too limited a market. Am I the only person to spot the paradox between the US calling for tough pollution regulations and yet not having a market for smaller engines?

Even engines which did make it to the US almost always produce less power than euro equivalents. This is particularly true of late '70s models, the E24 six series was especially badly hit as was the early five series.
US models have different ratings of headlights and in the case of the E36 three series totally different lenses. US lenses are made of a softer plastic and are more prone to pitting and damage Most US models do not have rear fog lamps, these are madatory in europe.

US models often have softer suspension, take the US E36 M3 for example.
The speed limiters in the US have different settings. The US 318iS is limited to 118mph whereas the UK version manages an unrestricted 132.

Just as an FYI,

SRS = Supplementary Restraint System

Dan, I basically agree, but this is all off the topic. I meant to state that the EU cars are in a higher state of tune using tuned headers, intakes, etc. that are often much more vocal in their power delivery than the US cars. The US consumer will not usually make the trade off for the power if it results in a noisy sound, rough ride, or what have you. See all the posts about the exhaust ring on the E46? This is what a tuned exhaust with headers always sounds like if it has a quiet muffler attached. As you cross into the ram effect of the tuning, the rasp is the resulting sound. All Motorsport cars except the E30 M3 have had cast iron manifolds in the US, and stainless headers in th EU. Same for the damped flywheel. The gear rattle is the nature of the beast when the cam timing is radical enough to make 300+ HP. EU cars have had idle gear rattle for ages. My MB 2.3-16 was a 1984 EU spec car that I had here in the US. It rattled like crazy, but the US 2.3-16's were quiet. About 30 HP short as well, I might add. So to recap, I feel the EU consumer realizes and understands the compromises better than the US one. The US consumer wants the 300 HP and plush ride, 1G on the skidpad, and 40 MPG on the highway, no maintenance for 100,000 miles. (All for $20,000)The EU consumer understands that if the engine makes HP at 8000 RPM, it might be a bit weak off the stoplight. Or, you might have a choppy ride if the car can do .9G on the skidpad. I hope I have clarified my point here. Cheers

US consumers are very demanding. We expect the most for our money. Most of whats said is true but doesnt go for everyone in the US.

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2002 M3 Cabrolet.White/Red.SMG
website://www.leo.nutz.de/

All this talk about the american vs european consumer being more or less tolerant of the idiosyncracies of a high performance vehicle misses the point.

This thread began with a simple question - for which there have been several plausible assertions ; the most likely being the lightweight clutch assembly. But nowhere has there been any statement from BMW , presumably the authorities on this matter , that corroborates any single assertion. Quite the contrary, the dealerships acknowledge the clunk is abnormal and BMW corporate has issued a memo indicating that they do not know what the noise is and continue to investigate. Secondly, there remains the nagging problem that not all M3s experience this noise (or maybe the driver can't hear it). Thirdly, EU porsches and other high strung automobiles do not have this clunk indicating that there is a way of producing a high performance vehicle and still dampen this clunk.

With all due to respect to the very thoughtful and knowledgeable responders to this thread, I'm just looking for a definitive answer from BMW. If its normal then I will live with it but they will have an obligation to point this out to prospective buyers. And the damn car and driver magazines who hype these cars will also have an obligation to honestly report these idiosyncracies instead of ignoring them.

If on the other hand its a design flaw then I want it fixed because its annoying as hell in my particular M3. I predict that the 2003 will eliminate the clunk without sacrificing performance.