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View Full Version : Why did I buy carbon black - scratches


DEW
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 11:50:05 AM
I came so close to buying a silver one but instead, I bought an 04 CB. I took my car cover off this morning and low and behold, frickin scratches on the passenger side door. Is it possible the car cover did this?. It has never touched the ground and there shouldn't be any debris on it. :banghead: :banghead:

Now, is it possible to remove them. I can't feel them with my finger nail but they look white. I have the Zaino kit so this might help. I tested Zaino on the trunk a while ago and it left swirl marks. Maybe the towel I was using wasn't soft enough?

Please help.

GSIRM3
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 12:15:47 PM
Even if your car cover never touched the ground, you will have dust on your car from driving it. You can scratch your car putting th ecar cover on if your car is not free of all abrasive particles. This is especially true for dark colors.

You may or may not be able to get the scratches out by hand. It depends on how deep they are. Even if you can buff them out, you might create swrill marks in the process.

Sly1
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 12:28:38 PM
My two favorite colors: red and black. A CB M3 is absolutely gorgeous when it's clean and polished. But I would never buy one. Why? Both red and black cars show up the smallest imperfections. So I've been buying silver cars. Not my favorite color but you don't have to worry about swirls and scratches.

Krzysztof
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 12:37:13 PM
beautiful girls are challenging!

GSIRM3
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 02:05:07 PM
My two favorite colors: red and black. A CB M3 is absolutely gorgeous when it's clean and polished. But I would never buy one. Why? Both red and black cars show up the smallest imperfections. So I've been buying silver cars. Not my favorite color but you don't have to worry about swirls and scratches.

Actually, I have an IR 03 M3 coupe that does not show swirls or scratches bad at all. I have owned black cars and the IR is much easier to keep.

kregu
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 03:07:23 PM
hi,
has also a CB and know exactly what you are speaking of :beer:
well even if you could feel it with your nails, you can get it off with GS27 Titanium
I always use this product for removing scratches and it works very well :thumbsup:
I found this product in the caribean sea (Martinique) and found it nowhere else again :???:
maybe someone here can tell us how to get it :help:
gk

Beowoulf
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 03:08:54 PM
This is the curse of a black car. GSIRM3 already told you about the cover. The scratches will come out but you have to do it properly. I would suggest nothing but Microfiber towels be used on a black car even for Zaino. I cancelled my order for CB and got TiAg for this exact prupose. Good luck.

EmUc
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 04:22:40 PM
hi,
has also a CB and know exactly what you are speaking of :beer:
well even if you could feel it with your nails, you can get it off with GS27 Titanium
I always use this product for removing scratches and it works very well :thumbsup:
I found this product in the caribean sea (Martinique) and found it nowhere else again :???:
maybe someone here can tell us how to get it :help:
gk

This looks like what you're looking for
http://www.gs27.com/

kregu
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 04:53:17 PM
Thanx!
that's it!
simply the best I know :thumbsup:

E46Rachmunas
Fri, Mar-12-2004, 06:31:35 PM
These are always little scratches on any kinds of Black cars even in car showrooms.

BestBMWCustomer
Sat, Mar-13-2004, 01:14:59 AM
I love the black in this car also, but learned my lesson with my last car (BMW 328is); however, I have also learned a lot about car care on this forum and believe most of the swirls, etc. could have been taken care of with the right cleaners, polishes and waxes.

Here are a couple other thoughts - NEVER take it to an automatic car wash and remember, you are the only one who notices the small flaws. If those small flaws were noticible by others, no one would ever buy a black car.

Mike

fkjr2
Sat, Mar-13-2004, 01:51:22 AM
This is why I don't buy black cars! :banghead: I have IR and its better in hiding scratches.

M-Powe|2
Sat, Mar-13-2004, 02:17:13 AM
CB is one of the gorgeous color when it's polished and wax, especially at night times!!!

04M3blur
Sat, Mar-13-2004, 04:51:08 AM
Make sure you don't use a cheap car cover and remember, the most important time to wash your car is immediately before you put the cover on it. Also, if you store your car outside with a car cover on it, be careful, the wind is not a friend to your car's finish, so make sure the cover is very tight..

jkaye
Sat, Mar-13-2004, 05:18:47 AM
whatever you do, dont us the gs27. The chemical makeup of the formula breaks down the paint surrounding the scratch inorder to fade it into the panel. This will ruin your paint. If you really have problems with scratches, make sure to use a serious paint prep, not just dawn, and something like griots machine polish number 2.

mtnm3
Sat, Mar-13-2004, 04:21:05 PM
OK, this may seem silly, but do you guys think that waxing and/or "zainoing" a car actually adds scratches rather than protects the car in the long run? I have a CB coupe and so far no swirls, but I'm wondering if doing this might actually cause more problems than it solves. Hmmmm.....

kregu
Sun, Mar-14-2004, 09:34:36 AM
@jkaye: did you have bad experiences with GS27?
because as I sad, I use it for some years now on my CB and just did good experiences!?
gk

rleven
Sun, Mar-14-2004, 10:06:39 AM
http://www.properautocare.com/mengerbespol.html
Use Menzerna Intensive Polish followed by Final Polish. This is what is used at BMW, Mercedes and Porsche. Also in the VPC's. You can get great MF towels at
www.pakshak.com
Bob

darkside
Sun, Mar-14-2004, 01:24:30 PM
I have Jet Black, and have had to learn to detail myself. First go to Autopia.org and spend a few hours on the learning section to get some of the basics. I find the Porter Cable 7424 a must. For moderately severe scratches I use Mequire's DACP polish applied with a Meguire's red (polishing) pad. My neighbor has an 04 M3 which had a number of pretty bad scratches. He was ready to pay the deductible and get the sections repainted. I brought out the PC and 15 minutes later all the scratches were undetectable.

With black it is never perfect, but how many people get up to 12inches from the car and then look at it from an angle while shining a bright light like I do? It still is the best looking, in my opinion, when properly detailed. And even when filthy by my standards, it still looks outstanding from 20 feet away.

Carl

paul e
Sat, May-08-2004, 06:46:53 PM
If you have some clearcoat layer swirls, or light scratches, and want a very quick way to deal with them, Ive had tremendous success using 3M Cleaner Wax; either the Light or the Moderate oxidation formulation.

Whats great about it is, with a soft cotten towel applicator, and moderate pressure, this product will REMOVE mild scratches and swirls with just hand application and rubbing. Plus, when youre done, you havent removed the wax requireing a reapplication. So, its Fast, and its Damn effective. Whenever I want to remove something thats caught my eye as Im walking by the car, this is the method I use.. No other product, via hand application is more effective. It tides me over between complete Porter Cable polishing sessions.. When using the PC by the way, IVe found that a burgundy Meguiars cutting pad, with some 3M fine cut rubbing compound (no, not the old fashioned dupont No. 7 stuff in the green and white tin designed to remove paint in short order!), works wonders at removing virtually all clear coat layer damage. Following up with liquid sovereign applied with a finishing pad with the PC completes the job.. Or, if you prefer, hand applied S100/P21S is also excellent.. But for removing scratches, both these methods have worked wonders for me, and makes my '99 Alpine White M3 look brand new.

awoods68
Sat, May-08-2004, 11:06:44 PM
Thanks, just ordered some. Some evil doer scratched my trunk.

M34U2NV
Mon, May-10-2004, 05:06:01 PM
I think you will be pleased if you use 3M Swirl Mark Remover for Dark Cars.
Follow using that up with a good carnauba wax, like Meguiar's #26 mirror glaze, and you should be good to go.

3M swirl mark remover is available at pep boys, and remember: for DARK cars, make sure it sez that on the bottle if you're getting it.

-Frank

squider
Tue, May-11-2004, 02:08:30 AM
My two favorite colors: red and black. A CB M3 is absolutely gorgeous when it's clean and polished. But I would never buy one. Why? Both red and black cars show up the smallest imperfections. So I've been buying silver cars. Not my favorite color but you don't have to worry about swirls and scratches.


Well said, couldn't agree more.

SpecialK
Mon, May-17-2004, 11:57:20 PM
DEW, There is hope. Never owned a black car before this and found method to the madness in keeping her sparkling . . . time. Take some (5 min) and do a quick wipe down each evening with a microfiber. Do a quick wax (Zaino, PS2, Griot's, etc) in between washes and detail in sections so you don't spend the entire day racking your brains for perfection. Griot's Garage has a hand polishing kit he uses on those 100K+ Ferraris and Austin Martins at a reasonable price. www.griotsgarage.com If you really trust yourself, he has a machine polishing system garaunteed to make you happy with the results and it's designerd to be "idiot-proof" for the squeamish. 3M also makes a quality swirl remover and polish. If I find a scratch, I hit it right away with compound, polish, then wax and it melts back into the finish with ease. I have it down to where you need to be looking for swirls to find them. It's work if you make it that, but in the end they will always be present for one reason or another no matter what the color.

SpecialK
Tue, May-18-2004, 12:06:30 AM
One additional thought: When you take it in for service, ensure they document that you don't want it washed, waxed, buffed, vacuumed, VIP serviced, preserved, specially bonded, hermetically sealed, or anything else that involves your local high school parts jockey to lay one hand on it. Trust me, he could care less at $6.50 an hour about your swirl issues.

Sirius
Tue, May-18-2004, 02:00:37 AM
One additional thought: When you take it in for service, ensure they document that you don't want it washed, waxed, buffed, vacuumed, VIP serviced, preserved, specially bonded, hermetically sealed, or anything else that involves your local high school parts jockey to lay one hand on it. Trust me, he could care less at $6.50 an hour about your swirl issues.

Speak for yourself. I started as a car washer at work, and I took great pride in making sure thoes BMWs looked good after taking a trip thru the body shop. Especially the higher-classed BMWs. I still take pride in it too when I am called to clean the cars up. I am often asked to remove swirl marks, even before the customer has a chance to see them.

M3IZZY
Tue, May-18-2004, 03:55:11 AM
When I picked up my new M3 last month at the dealer, I was greeted by a super buffed, super swirl marked M3. I didn't even say anything because I was so excited to get my new ride. Oh well. Now I gotta go the clean, polish, glaze & wax route. That should do it. I'm done w/ the dealership and local handwashers.

SpecialK
Tue, May-18-2004, 02:20:52 PM
I did speak for myself and don't take it as a personal attack, it's just business. I applaud you if you consider yourself to be in that league. That kind of ethic is an exceptional trait and in itself places you in a minority. Outside of your commitment, the dealer is no place to bring your finish out.
Speak for yourself. I started as a car washer at work, and I took great pride in making sure thoes BMWs looked good after taking a trip thru the body shop. Especially the higher-classed BMWs. I still take pride in it too when I am called to clean the cars up. I am often asked to remove swirl marks, even before the customer has a chance to see them.

bee0818
Tue, May-18-2004, 03:49:56 PM
Do you really want to know how to take care of black?
Check this thread out:
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/detailing/5046111-3.html

If I were you, I would order a PC and select a polish/polishes.
I went with the PC7336 and the einszett polishes.
The 1z products are supposedly easy to use and do not require an assortment of steps.
I plan on sealing and protecting with zaino once the surface has been prepped.

riuster
Tue, May-18-2004, 04:12:18 PM
I have a carbon black and its a pain in the ass to maintain, things I do to maintain it.

Microfiber towels MEGUIARS!!!
Quik Wax meguiars, after each run. wipe it.
Polisher..rotary.
Random Orbital Polisher
buffing pads
Swirl remover for dark cars by 3M
Fine cut compound 3m
Meguiars Gold Wax
meguiars Polish or swirl remover..paint cleaner what ever
and GARAGED!

you should learn how to use the products i mentioned above.

if its a scratch that you have or a streak, you have to use a ROTARY polisher, but I warn you, in the hands of an novice, you will kill your paint,

The rotary polisher and compound really smooths the paints clear coat, where the scratch really is..its not on the carbon black coat..its on the clear, unless your car was keyed..thats a different story.

The idea is to smudge the clear and to blend the clear back into shape, the only way to do it..is with a rotary polisher at 2000rpm, more than that you will burn your paint, put some compound, fine cut...and get a fine foam pad from 3m for BUFFING, the finest one...or even foam, if you feel comfortable.

then start to cut away..dont do it on plastic...lower rpm....thats dangerous...for a novice detailer. spin adn see , then spin then see again....and examine after each contact....you have to feel the paint slightly agitated meaning HEATING UP...then....after continous repeat action, the scratch will dissappear. This is how i remove my scratches....

If you feel uncomfortable, contact your local BMW dealer, and they will recommend a detail shop to remove the scratches...

I actually wanted to buy a white, but there are so many white cars..., but CB is a very UNIQUE color for cars....as long as you maintain it....Dark Colors on BMWs look better than light colors....IMO, It just looks more NOBLE and PRESTIGIOUS, but comes with a price..good luck!

BaDm0theR
Tue, May-18-2004, 06:08:58 PM
you should learn how to use the products i mentioned above.

if its a scratch that you have or a streak, you have to use a ROTARY polisher, but I warn you, in the hands of an novice, you will kill your paint,



I must emphasize this word of caution as well. Improper use of a rotary is very dangerous, and can severly damage & burn the clearcoat/paint. The Rotary spins in a fixed circular motion creating large amounts of friction and heat. If & when used properly it can & will fix paint problems that results my hand cannot even compare to. However, if you have ever seen holograms and incredible amounts of deeply imbedded swirls on a car thats at a dealership...its a direct correlation to the mis-use of a rotary by some inexperience Baboon in their detailing dept.

For a beginer/non-professional enthusiast who wants to achieve outstanding results that hand polishing/waxing cannot compare with, you should opt for a DAP (Dual Action polisher), its also known as a Porter Cable (PC for short). The random orbiting action does not create the intense heat/friction that a rotary does...and hence is much safer for every beginer/inexperienced detailing enthusiast to use. At the same time too, the PC (porter cable) delivers phenomenol results than you would almost never get by hand, and in many cases can correct & remove paint impefections such as swirls and holograms (when used with the appropriate pads, detailing products, and the correct technique).


Goodluck and happy detailing.


:peace:

coldsteele35
Tue, May-18-2004, 08:22:38 PM
I must emphasize this word of caution as well. Improper use of a rotary is very dangerous, and can severly damage & burn the clearcoat/paint. The Rotary spins in a fixed circular motion creating large amounts of friction and heat. If & when used properly it can & will fix paint problems that results my hand cannot even compare to. However, if you have ever seen holograms and incredible amounts of deeply imbedded swirls on a car thats at a dealership...its a direct correlation to the mis-use of a rotary by some inexperience Baboon in their detailing dept.

For a beginer/non-professional enthusiast who wants to achieve outstanding results that hand polishing/waxing cannot compare with, you should opt for a DAP (Dual Action polisher), its also known as a Porter Cable (PC for short). The random orbiting action does not create the intense heat/friction that a rotary does...and hence is much safer for every beginer/inexperienced detailing enthusiast to use. At the same time too, the PC (porter cable) delivers phenomenol results than you would almost never get by hand, and in many cases can correct & remove paint impefections such as swirls and holograms (when used with the appropriate pads, detailing products, and the correct technique).


Goodluck and happy detailing.


:peace:

I can attest to this I just got done doing my fiance's car this past weekend used the 7424 orbital buffer, meguires # 83 #82 and #9 also put on some Z5. Removed probably 70% of the acid rain etch and ALL the swirls worked great. Someone even commented to her that her car looked great and asked how she did it, she pointed to a picture of me!!! Anyways it was real easy to use it did take some time since I had to go through 3 different polishes from meguires, but its not something I would do often. All the swirls were from the stuipid ass dealer washing her car, I forgot to tell them one time and bam, I got the service manager and showed him and told him to put a note NEVER WASH THIS CAR AGAIN! He offered to have it buffed I said No way!!! All in all I spent about 9 hours on the car, but it was worth the final product. I might even use it on my CB M to fix up a few things, thats how good I think it is!

coldsteele35
Tue, May-18-2004, 08:24:49 PM
One additional thought: When you take it in for service, ensure they document that you don't want it washed, waxed, buffed, vacuumed, VIP serviced, preserved, specially bonded, hermetically sealed, or anything else that involves your local high school parts jockey to lay one hand on it. Trust me, he could care less at $6.50 an hour about your swirl issues.



:clap: :clap: :clap:

Im thinking of making a sign for my car that says DON"T EVEN THINK OF WASHING THIS CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cyg
Tue, May-18-2004, 08:51:13 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Im thinking of making a sign for my car that says DON"T EVEN THINK OF WASHING THIS CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take one too!!

SpecialK
Fri, May-21-2004, 01:46:52 AM
From what I understand, Porter Cable's orbital buffer comes in a couple varieties. The one that is preferred has no screws going through the base pad which reduces the heat transfer in turn preventing or greatly reducing the chance of burrning the paint. The only one I could find is at Griot's Garage for $200 without pads. I think that's a bit high. Anyone have one from Griot's or another company without the screws going through the pad? If so, what's the model number if not the 7424?

M3IZZY
Fri, May-21-2004, 02:42:36 AM
SpecialK, check releven's post on page two of this thread. He left a killer link for Menzerna polish's. If you play around with there website, you can pretty much find EVERYTHING you need. http://www.properautocare.com/mengerbespol.html

They got 7424's for $129 and with some backing and pad's included for $149. They got everything on that website! I spent a couple days going thru it all and ended up ordering about $160 bucks worth of stuff (Menzerna polish & glaze, P21s wax, microfiber's, etc...) Make sure you read what the 3 paint specialists for BMW, Mercedes and USA Chrysler say re: german paints. http://www.properautocare.com/aregepadi.html

I'm gonna try and hit my Orient Blue swirls by hand first and see if the polish will get'em via hand strength. If not, then it's 7424 time and probably another $180 to $200 with all the diff. pads and stuff.

BaDm0theR
Fri, May-21-2004, 03:13:18 AM
From what I understand, Porter Cable's orbital buffer comes in a couple varieties. The one that is preferred has no screws going through the base pad which reduces the heat transfer in turn preventing or greatly reducing the chance of burrning the paint. The only one I could find is at Griot's Garage for $200 without pads. I think that's a bit high. Anyone have one from Griot's or another company without the screws going through the pad? If so, what's the model number if not the 7424?

Heya SpecialK,

$200 for the Porter cable 7424, without any backing plate or pads is quite steep indeed.


I bought my 7424 PC, backing plate and Meguairs pads from www.premiumautocare.com

Also, i got a 10% discount b/c im a www.detailcity.com member too. Dwayne Mcpeeks (the operator of premiumautocare.com) is a class act, and offers outstanding service with competative prices. Check them out, and swing him an email if you have any questions...he'll take care of you.

prem auto care has it listed for $139, and has Meguiars 3 foam pad kit WITH backing plat for an additional 30-40$.

10% off, and you looking at roughly $165-180.
Goodluck.

Wagner///M3
Fri, May-21-2004, 10:23:45 AM
Carbon Black may be hard to clean up and polish but when you take the time and do it....there is not a paint job IMO that looks better on the M.

SpecialK
Fri, May-21-2004, 01:54:54 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. I did find a 7424 on Amazon for $119 with free shipping which I thought might be the case if I spent some time surfing the net. Also, great info regarding German paint . . . learn something new every day. I do think I'm going to machine polishing for a couple reasons. It only removes fractions of milimeters from the clear coat and I remain a happy swirl-free camper in the process, plus this hand work is intimidating. Thanks again for the info.

SpecialK
Fri, May-21-2004, 02:06:55 PM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dtools%26field-keywords%3Dporter%20cable%207424%26results-process%3Ddefault%26dispatch%3Dsearch/ref%3Dpd%5Fsl%5Fov%5Ftops-1%5Ftools%5F4463786%5F1/002-8640536-8419212 - $119.95

SpecialK
Fri, May-21-2004, 02:11:28 PM
Sorry, here's one with free shipping (sorry California) and it's $114.99!
http://www.toolmarts.com/pc_7424.html?OVRAW=porter%20cable%207424&OVKEY=porter%20cable%207424&OVMTC=standard

bee0818
Fri, May-21-2004, 02:51:00 PM
K,
This is the one I chose.
Griot's is a ripoff.

http://www.detailersparadise.com/_System/_AdvancedStore/ProductDetail.asp

Edit: looks like its not linking.
Just go under car care bundles and look for the deluxe polishing kit