Newest issue of CAR (the English mag) has some interesting commentray & photes concerning the upcoming 4 series:
The 06' 4 series will offer 5 engine options:
-2.5 L. NA 6, "entry level" 4 series coupe, the "425".
-3.0 L. NA 6 260hp w/ better low end torque, the "430".
-3.2 L. turbo 6, 330=hp & lot'sof torque. the "432". (this may be the one for me.) First FAI BMW productiion car in a long time.
-V8 w/ magnesium block 400hp, "M4"
-V8 w/ over 440 hp, "M4 CSL"
The photo's a reveal a very nice looking!!! new coupe w/ a low roof & sexy stance (best bangle & IMO a real winner.) Convert. looked great too.

The 4 series will share 30-40% parts w/ the new 2 series paltforms (mostly suspension parts) but will utilize many aluminium components not found in the 2 series.

IMO: A very promising puicture of the future product lines & somewhat sad & ironic in view of the departure of Chris Bangle (all these cars are handsome, innovative and may be real winners w/ hardline BMW traditionalist.) Bangle may yet live on in some degree of esteem.

hey just cuz u posted that im runnin down to my local barnes & noble to pick up an issue.

To me 400 hp is not going to be enough for the price of this car it will be more than our cars are now, am I correct on this?

With the new vette coming out and it being cheaper, I don't know I guess I will have to wait and see what it looks like!

How much are the M4 and M6 going to cost in US dollars?

can you scan the page and post it?

Originally posted by Topaz M3 Chibi
can you scan the page and post it?
:thumbsup:

sounds nice, i like the sound of the M4 but i also like that 3.2 Turbo idea, much easier to upgrade.....But when all is said and done gimme the M version

Originally posted by coldsteele35
To me 400 hp is not going to be enough for the price of this car it will be more than our cars are now, am I correct on this?

With the new vette coming out and it being cheaper, I don't know I guess I will have to wait and see what it looks like!
I was hoping the M3/M3 will continue to use the current I-6. Oh well.

Who knows, the new "432" may have the guts to become the supra of modern day. It makes me think twice about buying a used (E46)M3

I thjought they were gonna use a "decompressed" s54 in the new 432.

What is that "432" thing, anyway?

Scan & post the page please !!

oh wow a turbo would be sooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOSOOOOOOOOOOO NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh wow a turbo would be sooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOSOOOOOOOOOOO NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really? I'd much rather have the smooth, natural feel of the "traditional" BMW inline six over a turbo anytime... ;)

These have been out for a while, basic artist impressions and photoshops..etc...

http://members.home.nl/gtnet/fun/bmw%20serie4.jpg
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24542
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24543
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24541
http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-1-8/1996392-sk99b.jpg

M4
http://www.bohp.net/pict2/newe90m4.jpg
http://images.sarajevo-x.com/vijesti/030727005.jpg

-Adam

P.S. Much better thant he 6-Series IMOHO

P.S. Much better thant he 6-Series IMOHO
That I must agree...

Turbo has been rumored before.. Last I heard, BMW wanted to stick with NA. However, adding a turbo to the 432 (meaning 4 series, 3.2L engine) would make this an attractive offering simply to the fact that turbo cars have alot more potential to upgrade.

The performance cap would be inline to what AA is doing with the E36 M3 Turbos. They are capping around 430+RWHP. This would make the 432 faster than the new M3/M4.

Turbo has been rumored before.. Last I heard, BMW wanted to stick with NA. However, adding a turbo to the 432 (meaning 4 series, 3.2L engine) would make this an attractive offering simply to the fact that turbo cars have alot more potential to upgrade.

The performance cap would be inline to what AA is doing with the E36 M3 Turbos. They are capping around 430+RWHP. This would make the 432 faster than the new M3/M4.BMW would not offer a turbo with the intent of making aftermarket enhancements easier. It's very rare a car company encourages modification of their product as it creates warranty and customer service issues. IF BMW does offer this package I'm sure it is to give the 3.2 Liter more torque or the power of a V8 is a 6 Cylinder package. My Guess is they're better off just offering the 4.5 Liter V8 from the 5 series instead since Audi and Mercedes are both offering V8s in their 3-series competitors (C and A4) this puts BMW in a position of playing power catch-up.

-Adam

Looks good. Makes me wonder if I should have waited a year....

More than that. I wouldn't expect a new M4 for 2-3 more years.

I agree... I never liked turbos as it was always a cheap way to try to get more performance from an underperformer. I though Mercedes was the only one that had to stoop to this level to deliver increased performance.

What a let down... I also don't really care for the new styling direction they are going in. Much more happier with my M3.

Really? I'd much rather have the smooth, natural feel of the "traditional" BMW inline six over a turbo anytime... ;)

I agree... I never liked turbos as it was always a cheap way to try to get more performance from an underperformer. I though Mercedes was the only one that had to stoop to this level to deliver increased performance.

What a let down... I also don't really care for the new styling direction they are going in. Much more happier with my M3.

Yes, Mercedes-Benz should hang their heads in shame for making the 5.5 litre twin turbo V12 available on their cars. 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 11.9 second quarter mile time for the SL600 is such a shame.

altho i agree with what farjo08 says, i don't think BMW has "stooped" to Mercedes' level simply because they're only offering the FI option on their mid-range performers. We can see that the ///M variant will still retain the traditional free revving N/A engines like the previous ///M cars.

It does makes you wonder how it'd off-set the power hiearchy if the 432FI can be "easily tuned" for more power than the ///M. Like what we've seen in the past, BMW always tries to make their ///M variants as exclusive, and well apart in terms of performance than the rest of the model line.

for instance, we've seen the highly detuned 3.0 M54, and the very very conservative gearing of the 330. All in the attempt to make the M3 more exclusive, more powerful, and a marque of hi-performance BMW.

I am really interested to see how this new FI concept will play out once the aftermarket tuning really starts to pickup since we can all expect the M engine to be high strung and hard to tune like the S54.

Besides modding potential what is the point of a 3.2 liter turbo motor which outputs the same amount of power as the current naturally aspirtaed 3.2 liter ???

A high-revving V8 would be cool, but there's something to be said of keeping the tradition alive with an I-6

Besides modding potential what is the point of a 3.2 liter turbo motor which outputs the same amount of power as the current naturally aspirtaed 3.2 liter ???
The 3.2-litre turbo will probably be based on the current M54 motor, which produces 225 bhp. My speculation is that the engine will be bored from 3.0 to 3.2 and then turbocharged; 300 bhp from that configuration sounds reasonable to me. Besides, the turbo M54 will probably be much cheaper to build than the S54.

P.S. Much better thant he 6-Series IMOHO
I would not criticize the 6 series until you see it in person. I saw the new 6 about 2 weeks ago when my buddy had it for testing. Pics. do not due this car any justice. The shape, lines, interior, even the way the trunk opens is hot. You push the BMW roundel thats on the trunk,t folds in, nd the trunk opens by itself. :thumbsup: Only negatives were that the sunroof only pops up and does not open fully, and really no room in the back unless your a newborn.

A high-revving V8 would be cool, but there's something to be said of keeping the tradition alive with an I-6
You da man! I am of the exact same opinion. Long live the Straight Six! :thumbsup:

I doubt we'll end up seing a 432 turbo. For the price difference between the 432 and the M4 you could probably TRICK out the 432 with intake/exhaust/boost controller/etc. and be just as fast. That would make selling the M4 real tough.

that thing is ugly. turbo 6 cyclinder is promising. gives the supra guys a second thought after ome good german engineering.

Some people could use that same argument comparing the M3 vs. the 330Ci or Corvette Coupe vs. Z06. What I've seen though is that both are more than just an engine upgrade over their less-tuned siblings offering differentiation in the form of wheels, tires, suspension, interior and exterior upgrades.Sure it's cheap to make a regualr Corvette Coupe faster than a Z06, or even handle better, but to do both as well as the factory does typically incures greater cost and voiding keey componets of the factory warranty. To that end a ~75 hp improvement over base from 432 to M4 coupled with all the other M-provements should be enough to justify the extra money (assuming it's a similar cost upgrade as the E46).

As for FI being a crutch, I wouldn't really say that either. It's a good solution to offer reliable power within a package constraint. Assuming that most of the major parts carry over from a 430 to a 432 then I'm sure it's a cost savings to them. Personally though I would rather have a 445 over a 432 Turbo. A V8 (assuming it can be packaged properly) has numerous advantages over an I6. Case in point just shortening the motor length by two cylinders alone would improve handling in the form of a lower moment of Inertia. The BMW I-6 is one of the best motors around but it's really reached it's final form in the E46 M3 and there isn't much more that can be done for it naturally aspirated without doing a clean sheet design. ($$expensive$$).

-Adam

Id buy that M4, looks great

The BMW I-6 is one of the best motors around but it's really reached it's final form in the E46 M3 and there isn't much more that can be done for it naturally aspirated without doing a clean sheet design. ($$expensive$$).

I do agree with you on that. In the meantime, BMW could just keep using the same engine and improve other aspects of the new M. If I were the chief engineer, I would seriously consider making the car smaller and lighter than the E46. That way, the same 333 bhp / 262 lb-ft will mean much more for the new M.

Honestly, I feel that the E46 M3 is as big as a sports sedan/coupe can be. I see no reason whatsoever to make it any bigger. If they can keep the weight of the new M under 3,000 pounds, then the S54 engine on it will be roughly equal to
380 bhp on the E46 body. And I know the S54 can be pushed to 360 SAE hp (about 355 bhp).

So long as the CSL comes stateside it's all good baby.

I never criticized or complained about Mercedes performance numbers, I just said I think using a turbo charger it is a cheap way to get extra power and certainly not as impressive as standard power generated from a more superior (i.e. more powerful) engine.

Yes, Mercedes-Benz should hang their heads in shame for making the 5.5 litre twin turbo V12 available on their cars. 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 11.9 second quarter mile time for the SL600 is such a shame.

I never criticized or complained about Mercedes performance numbers, I just said I think using a turbo charger it is a cheap way to get extra power and certainly not as impressive as standard power generated from a more superior (i.e. more powerful) engine.The only thing that impresses me are results! My Motorcycle makes 200hp/Liter but I wouldn't want that motor in my car.

I do agree with you on that. In the meantime, BMW could just keep using the same engine and improve other aspects of the new M. If I were the chief engineer, I would seriously consider making the car smaller and lighter than the E46. That way, the same 333 bhp / 262 lb-ft will mean much more for the new M.

Honestly, I feel that the E46 M3 is as big as a sports sedan/coupe can be. I see no reason whatsoever to make it any bigger. If they can keep the weight of the new M under 3,000 pounds, then the S54 engine on it will be roughly equal to
380 bhp on the E46 body. And I know the S54 can be pushed to 360 SAE hp (about 355 bhp).I wouldn't want the M3 to be any smaller. What I feel makes it such a good car is it's practicality as well as it's performance. It strikes a fine balance between the two in it's current form, sacrificing one for the other would lessen it's appeal in my opinion. Who knows, maybe they'll make an M2 that is smaller and lighter with the the 333bhp I-6.

I never criticized or complained about Mercedes performance numbers, I just said I think using a turbo charger it is a cheap way to get extra power and certainly not as impressive as standard power generated from a more superior (i.e. more powerful) engine.

I don't see how a turbocharger can be seen as "cheap". While high-hp NA engines are impressive, I'm with Shinkaze, all I care about are results. I see FI as pushing the envelope even further. I love my M3, but my Supra amazes me more by making over double the power on the stock motor (stock shortblock and head) that was rated at 320hp from the factory. Granted, the Supra's engine may not make the sweet music or have the free revving nature the s54 does, but it sure as hell can hold the power. If the M3 came with this kind of potential from the factory, I would have only had to buy one car. :D

It's just an (my) opinion, that's all. Not challenging the end results, just how they get it. Just like I was always a Mustang fan (owned 3 of them: a 70, 88 5.0 LX and 97 Cobra). Even though the Camaro/Firebird/Transam for the most part outperformed them at all engine levels I would never get one and would settle for the slower mustang over the faster Camaro/Firebird/Transam.

I guess when it comes to engines I am just impressed with raw power over addons like turbo chargers. Nothing more... To each his own! :D

On a side note, when it comes to F1, I am a McLaren fan and not a Willams fan (i.e. Mercedes not BMW) and I can't wait for next season with Raikkonen and Montoya! :D

I don't see how a turbocharger can be seen as "cheap". While high-hp NA engines are impressive, I'm with Shinkaze, all I care about are results. I see FI as pushing the envelope even further. I love my M3, but my Supra amazes me more by making over double the power on the stock motor (stock shortblock and head) that was rated at 320hp from the factory. Granted, the Supra's engine may not make the sweet music or have the free revving nature the s54 does, but it sure as hell can hold the power. If the M3 came with this kind of potential from the factory, I would have only had to buy one car. :D

I wouldn't want the M3 to be any smaller. What I feel makes it such a good car is it's practicality as well as it's performance. It strikes a fine balance between the two in it's current form, sacrificing one for the other would lessen it's appeal in my opinion. Who knows, maybe they'll make an M2 that is smaller and lighter with the the 333bhp I-6.
Hey, that would be my next car. :D

As for practicality, I didn't have any problem hauling four people and a decent amount of luggage in my E36 M3. The E46 is bigger now, but is it more practical? I don't know; I haven't had the car long enough to be able to tell the difference, but so far, I haven't been convinced that the size increase is justified. You may disagree; I understand if you do. Like many other things, this category is highly subjective.

If BMW in fact does make an M2 (hopefully in the form of a 2-door, 2-seater coupe), I would be beside myself with joy. :thumbsup:

Shinkaze,
according to a certain european car magazine i read, the new M2 should feature a 2.4 liter, 4 valve per cylinder, magnesium block making 250hp. The article also says the following engines will be available in europe and possibly in the U.S.:
1.8, 125hp-called the 218i
2.0, 165hp- called the 220i
2.0, 200hp-called the 220iS, (valvetronic)
2.0, 150hp- called the 220d i believe this is diesel but i'm not sure
2.4, 250hp- M2

If we look at F/I engines that are coming out of germany such as Audi's 1.8t and the Benz's supercharged/turbocharged motors, they all posses the potential to be modified. Especially Audi's 1.8T. But not only that, BMW already has a F/I engine that is being sold in its car, the MINI Cooper and that engine does have the potential for further tuning.
If bmw does decide to come out with this engine, how can it not be modified to levels of over 400hp. We all have heard about the Evosport kit for the M3 that contains a set of low compression piston and a supercharger which is less efficient the turbo, producing 450 horsepower at the wheels. I believe this engine might be the same "mistake" as the grand national's 3.8 as in that period of time, it topped all of it's competition in the. With the technology these days, this motor might just become the next supra as it will have the displacement, the low compression and hopefully a strong bottom end. But there are just to many variables that can make this thing go all wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.

Shinkaze,
according to a certain european car magazine i read, the new M2 should feature a 2.4 liter, 4 valve per cylinder, magnesium block making 250hp. The article also says the following engines will be available in europe and possibly in the U.S.:
1.8, 125hp-called the 218i
2.0, 165hp- called the 220i
2.0, 200hp-called the 220iS, (valvetronic)
2.0, 150hp- called the 220d i believe this is diesel but i'm not sure
2.4, 250hp- M2

If we look at F/I engines that are coming out of germany such as Audi's 1.8t and the Benz's supercharged/turbocharged motors, they all posses the potential to be modified. Especially Audi's 1.8T. But not only that, BMW already has a F/I engine that is being sold in its car, the MINI Cooper and that engine does have the potential for further tuning.
If bmw does decide to come out with this engine, how can it not be modified to levels of over 400hp. We all have heard about the Evosport kit for the M3 that contains a set of low compression piston and a supercharger which is less efficient the turbo, producing 450 horsepower at the wheels. I believe this engine might be the same "mistake" as the grand national's 3.8 as in that period of time, it topped all of it's competition in the. With the technology these days, this motor might just become the next supra as it will have the displacement, the low compression and hopefully a strong bottom end. But there are just to many variables that can make this thing go all wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.Loved the Grand National! great car!

Anyhow, you're right, just becuse it comes with a factory turbo doesn't insure ultimate tunability. The Supra and Buick were fantastic turbo motors from the factory, conversly the last generation S4 has a very low tunning ceiling and upgrades are very expensive to get to a 450 hp level. A friend of mine had one for a short while and was very frustrated with how few cheap mods were available due to anemic turbos/intercooler, weak clutch, etc. If BMW does make a turbo 3/4 series I hope we get the something with a strong service ceiling by I for one don't want to volunteer myself to figure out were the limits are. (been there, done than on the LS1 after $15K in repairs from pushing the envelope).

So long as the CSL comes stateside it's all good baby.


WoRd ! :thumbsup:

I would be interested in a variant of the new 4 coupe w/ a turbo engine but I just don't believe it will ever see the light of day (at least stateside.)
-Forced air induction is great if done properly (the newest AMG Kompressor cars being a model of "conservative" but very good engineering.) And no, this does not mean engine life is compromised. There are some FI cars running around w/ 200K miles on the odomemter.
-Would BMW really release a car that might end up being the darling of AM tuners & avid car lovers (a little extra boost, software tweeks plus additional plumbing & cooling?) I really doubt it but hope I am wrong.
-Finally, I would love to think the upcoming M2 (mentioned as being smallish, light and agile car w/ app. 250hp.) might be the answer for those of us who yearn for a smaller/lighter "M" pocket-rocket car.
-Sorry but I can't wait & will be buying my second BMW Cooper S this week!!!! (Electric Blue/white, 17" SSR comps, Brembo's, Supersprint Exhaust (w/o C. resonator) BMP intake/reduction pully & software. $31500 turn-key!!)

FYI: Keeping my new M3 until it stops running I think.

-Finally, I would love to think the upcoming M2 (mentioned as being smallish, light and agile car w/ app. 250hp.) might be the answer for those of us who yearn for a smaller/lighter "M" pocket-rocket car.
Exactly. Well IMO it could use the S54, but I could certainly live with 250 bhp if the chassis is light enough.

They should make a "very" extended version and put a twin turbo V12 in this monster to compete with the SL600.