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BarryB
Sat, Feb-21-2004, 10:55:09 PM
With a grand total of 2500 miles on the odometer I took my car up to the track today and really put it thru its paces. It's truly a hot car. Great handling, excellent power. But, the brake pedal got soft after a bunch of hot laps.
What have others done to address this issue??
TIA,
BarryB

Beowoulf
Sat, Feb-21-2004, 11:47:07 PM
I have a feeling your driving style may be a little more aggressive than most due to your experience but you can try the inexpensive fixes to see if they work before spending the $$$ for a BBK.

1. Punch out the little stops in the brake cooling ducts.
2. Change the brake fluid and pads
3. SS. Brake lines.
4. There is a brake cooling duct kit that you can install to bring air right next to the rotors.

Next in the expense list is the euro floating rotors that are cross drilled.

After this you are looking at a BBK.

Antwerp
Sat, Feb-21-2004, 11:47:07 PM
Well, some have tried the Euro-spec Cyro Cross-Drilled Rotors, but I've heard that these have similar issues!

It seems that Aftermarkets are your only choice...

Try a search... I don't know.

Divexxtreme
Sat, Feb-21-2004, 11:47:12 PM
Barry - Changing out the pads to the Axxis Deluxe pads is the most inexpensive route. Braided brake lines should help too. If you feel like spending lots of money, you could also go with a BBK.

txe46m3
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 12:02:32 AM
Pop out the front front brake duct plugs. That's a no-brainer.

Braided lines do squat. Anybody that tells you they do is...well...probably selling you stainless lines.

Based on your sig, I'll cut this a bit short. Unless you're running for more than 20 minutes per session, even a BBK isn't strictly necessary. Euro rotors do provide a small benifit, but they're not worth the money...I run them.

SuperBlue or Motul. Pagid Orange front and Porterfield R4 rear. If after that you still get deposits/fade, get a Bimmerworld front cooling kit and cut the rear backing plates off.

With a stock suspension and street tires, that should have you covered.

Antwerp
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 12:06:11 AM
I think braided lines do improve the feel of the braking, but I would agree, I don't think they will help with fade at all...

LandShark
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 02:53:04 AM
hey Barry, you already hit the track today?? man, I can't wait for March 7th, CarGuys, hopefully see you there again. ;)

as for brakes, honestly, the stock setup is pretty good w/ some small upgrades. I did mine w/ SuperBlue, upgrade brakeline, Hawks HT-10 front, Axxis Ultimate rear, euro rotors. they were fine all day long w/ no to very minimal brake fade at the end of the day (my last track day I met you, Nov. CarGuy, remember?). and I'm running rcomp tires with stock suspension. yes, I did get my rotors glow red hot!! but the brakes never fade on me at turn 1 and 5 in SummitPoint! (our car could hit 140mph at the end of the main striaght over at Summit Point)

just some pads/fuild upgrade should do you good, may be with a cooling duct or something later on.

I move to BBK is mainly b/c I now using CSL bumper which has no brake ducts, my rotors glow red hot even w/ brake duct already. no ducts? I'm afraid.... plus I got a really good deal on those Brembos too.

txe46m3
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 02:56:11 AM
Originally posted by M3_Ant
I think braided lines do improve the feel of the braking, but I would agree, I don't think they will help with fade at all...

If you want better feel, get solid brake guide bushings. Tremendous difference, but they require maintenance. Not a big deal if you track at least every 3 months and change pads for the track anyway.

BarryB
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 02:40:55 PM
Thanks everybody!!
My last car was a 330Ci and I had the SS brake lines, EvoSport slotted rotors in front, upgraded BMW pads, and ATE Super Blue.
Based on all the info I've gleaned from this thread, I'll probably start with ATE super blue and an upgraded pad in front. Then we'll see how that works.

So, THANKS everybody !!!

I will be instructing at the March 6th & 7th Car Guys event. If I recall correctly they have a blurb about their instructors on their website, and there may be something about me.
BarryB

nrubenstein
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 02:44:25 PM
Originally posted by divexxtreme
Barry - Changing out the pads to the Axxis Deluxe pads is the most inexpensive route.

Please tell me you're kidding...

Axxis Deluxes curl up and die on the track. And they screw up your rotors in the process.

txe46m3
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 02:54:10 PM
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd


Please tell me you're kidding...

Axxis Deluxes curl up and die on the track. And they screw up your rotors in the process.

Nick is right. The deluxe is a straight street pad. I just read Axxis the first time. The ultimate is better, but still weak. Get a full race pad front and rear. Anything else is going to leave your rotors w/ deposits. Go big or go home.

M3Man
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 04:43:45 PM
I would say SS brakelines is the answer

txe46m3
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 10:20:27 PM
Originally posted by M3Man
I would say SS brakelines is the answer

Why?

Beowoulf
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 10:25:24 PM
Barry: You may want ot use the ATE Typ200 or Motul 600 instead of the ATE blue . I never liked the blue stuff since it makes everything blue and if you have a real anal dealer they may bulk at warranty work since they can tell you changed it. I've heard of this happening once.

snook
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 10:42:43 PM
like txse46m3 said.....

combination of different things will help.....

what you experienced is brake fade...which is a result of pads, rotors, and fluids not being up to the task....

BarryB
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 10:44:21 PM
Originally posted by beowoulf
Barry: You may want ot use the ATE Typ200 or Motul 600 instead of the ATE blue . I never liked the blue stuff since it makes everything blue and if you have a real anal dealer they may bulk at warranty work since they can tell you changed it. I've heard of this happening once.

I guess I'm lucky. The dealership I go to did the ATE Super Blue replacement for me when I had my 330, and they knew about the other mods I had done to the car. They continued to honor the warranty with no problems whatsoever. The Service Manager & I have become friends. I even took him up to the track once last year and gave him some hot laps. Needless to say, he was blown away.

So, if I decide to go with Super Blue, they'll be perfectly fine with it.
BarryB

mabbadgerbimmer
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 11:27:05 PM
I use Castrol SRF. The cost is alot more 60 - 70 per quart. However it is significantly better than Motul or ATE.

BarryB
Sun, Feb-22-2004, 11:30:09 PM
Originally posted by mabbadgerbimmer
I use Castrol SRF. The cost is alot more 60 - 70 per quart. However it is significantly better than Motul or ATE.

According to this chart, you're right:
http://mysite.verizon.net/romano.michael/#_Brake_Fluids

But, does the M3 need it??
BarryB

txe46m3
Mon, Feb-23-2004, 12:06:15 AM
Yes it is better. Much better wet and dry boiling points. 12 bucks a quart vs. 60...I dunno if it's 5 times better. In a competitive situation, absolutely....but a DE? If you want that little extra margin because your running hard of full race pads, SRF makes lots of sense.

TonyM3
Mon, Feb-23-2004, 04:17:15 AM
Originally posted by txe46m3
Pop out the front front brake duct plugs. That's a no-brainer.

Braided lines do squat. Anybody that tells you they do is...well...probably selling you stainless lines.

Based on your sig, I'll cut this a bit short. Unless you're running for more than 20 minutes per session, even a BBK isn't strictly necessary. Euro rotors do provide a small benifit, but they're not worth the money...I run them.

SuperBlue or Motul. Pagid Orange front and Porterfield R4 rear. If after that you still get deposits/fade, get a Bimmerworld front cooling kit and cut the rear backing plates off.

With a stock suspension and street tires, that should have you covered.

Yep -- run my car at the track all the time. stainless/braided lines are good for saftey.

Euro rotors will help a bit, but you need a different brake pad. I run porterfields and they do well.

Also, look at the brake fluid -- it may need changing.

After that, as noted -- brake cooling kit.

Next, focus on tires and suspension!

BradATL
Tue, Mar-09-2004, 09:07:56 PM
I tracked my '04 M3 in January at Road Atlanta. I popped out the plugs in the cooling ducts, but other than that, it is bone stock. I experienced zero brake fade BUT it was only about 50 degrees outside and I was only going about 8/10th in the braking zone (versus the 10/10th's braking that I do in my track car).

I'm taking the M3 over to Barber (in Birmingham) this weekend for a track day. It will be 70 degrees out and I would like to push it a little harder than I did at Road Atlanta back in January. I'm going to flush out the stock fluid and replace with ATE Super Blue tomorrow. I hope this will be enough to prevent fade. I will let you guys know how it goes.

BarryB
Tue, Mar-09-2004, 10:14:45 PM
I tracked my '04 M3 in January at Road Atlanta. I popped out the plugs in the cooling ducts, but other than that, it is bone stock. I experienced zero brake fade BUT it was only about 50 degrees outside and I was only going about 8/10th in the braking zone (versus the 10/10th's braking that I do in my track car).
I'm taking the M3 over to Barber (in Birmingham) this weekend for a track day. It will be 70 degrees out and I would like to push it a little harder than I did at Road Atlanta back in January. I'm going to flush out the stock fluid and replace with ATE Super Blue tomorrow. I hope this will be enough to prevent fade. I will let you guys know how it goes.

I'll be very curious to read about your experience at Barber.
BarryB